Author Topic: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER  (Read 2571 times)

Offline Bob La Londe

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3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« on: May 27, 2025, 22:01:27 pm »
I reported and documented a while back, but I don't recall which number if any was reported. 

If the step over is large it has a negative impact on resolution regardless of the resolution setting. 

A work around is to generate tool paths at a low step over, convert to geometry, take on the tedious task of deleting unwanted tool paths from the resulting geometry, and engrave the rest.  Its a pretty bad bug and the only good work around is a crazy amount of work. 

Today I ran across the bug again.  I was recutting a mold I developed atleast 15 years ago with an older version of CamBam.  I regenerated the code using more efficient operations I have learned over the years, and I cut the mold.  The bug popped up its ugly head.  The thing is I have cut this mold from the old files many times, but not in a few years.  I don't ever recall having seen it in the old version generated with an older version of CamBam.  Maybe it's just the rose colored glasses of time and nostalgia.  Maybe the bug only appeared in the latest couple updates/versions of Cambam. 

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If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

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Offline dh42

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2025, 01:04:34 am »
Hello

Maybe both wrong 3D toolpaths bugs when resolution is different of stepover and the one you pointed are related.

The first bug appears with CB0.98N but is not present with 0.98L.

https://cambamcnc.com/forum/index.php?topic=10517.msg78203#msg78203

++
David

Offline EddyCurrent

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2025, 10:10:40 am »
I've often thought about how cutting a surface works.

If you use your mind to zoom into the surface, image a roundnose tool moving alongside a steep sloping wall.
IF the toolpath is calculated at the centre tip of the tool then as it steps over it's centre will still be on a flat area but it's side will move into the wall and take out a large bite. (I'm thinking of a wall being anything from a few mm upwards).

Obviously this will affect resolution. Maybe the code looks ahead at the next stepover toolpath and takes it into account somehow ?
Anyway I'd like to see a description of the toolpath algorithm.
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Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2025, 17:32:33 pm »
A given tool path shouldn't change whether the next step over is 5% or 50%.  It does. 

Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
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Offline lloydsp

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2025, 20:28:25 pm »
Bob, I didn't ask.  Are you talking about roughing or waterline finishing?  With small depth increments, I get really nice finishes with waterline finishing on 3D surfaces.

I deliberately use fairly large stepovers for roughing, but I've never had one 'overcut', just leave a bit too much stock for good finishing.  That's either for inside surfaces or outer profiles.

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2025, 21:24:03 pm »
Vertical or horizontal.
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

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Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2025, 21:41:59 pm »
I've pretty much quit using water line except for roughing because of the crazy computational times.  Even for roughing sometimes it gets so long I say the heck with it, and I use my cad software to create my own water lines for a trachoidal roughing operation. 
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

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Offline Tool-n-Around

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2025, 14:24:42 pm »
I've pretty much quit using water line except for roughing because of the crazy computational times.  Even for roughing sometimes it gets so long I say the heck with it, ........

I completely agree. It's too bad because I have many instances where water line MOPs seem much better suited. I do a lot of 2-sided machining and don't have a tool changer. As opposed to naming and saving multiple GCode files, I just enable/disable the applicable Parts/MOPs and send them on the fly. This makes the long WL compute times a complete non-starter. The scanline MOPS on the other hand compute quickly and easily......and just work every time. If there are areas better suited by vertical or horizontal, I just create additional bounding shapes accordingly.

I may be a special case since I'm just cutting Extruded Polystyrene foam patterns, but these days, I design in CAD to generate the surface and for using a .25D ball nose bit for cutting everything, even for flat bottom cutting. In foam, with .1 resolution and .1 stepover, you can't tell the difference in finish from a flat bottom cutter, and I lightly sand the patterns anyway.

As a result, I often have only one 3D (Scanline) MOP for the entire part, or at worse, several with different bounding shapes. Is it the most efficient as far as cut time? Of course not, but on my typical machine blank of 24"x12"x4", machine times vary from 30-45 minutes. Spending an hour optimizing the program to save 5-10 minutes of machine time or make a tool change on a one off just isn't worth it to me......if I was machining harder materials could be a different story, and when/if I use the program again, sometimes I make refinements then, but never adding WL MOPs.

Here's my last batch of patterns...with the hollows, obviously assembled from different parts, but almost all of them 2-sided 3D.

Best,
Kelly
« Last Edit: May 30, 2025, 14:30:16 pm by Tool-n-Around »

Offline lloydsp

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2025, 15:28:06 pm »
I do prototypes in rigid PVC foam.  Any-ol' finish will suffice to tell me I've got the shape I want.

But when I'm doing 3D work, it's usually for a final cut in a 'fine' wood.  This most recent project is in the heartwood of a 300 year-old Iso No Ki.  You can't afford to waste even a cubic inch of it!  ($430 USD/board ft., and it's illegal to export from Japan, now, since the 1980s, so the only supplies in the US are from old guys like me selling off stock they no-longer need.)

For really hard, resinous woods, only waterline will suit (for me).  Yeah, it takes a long time to generate the toolpaths with a small depth increment, and they're huge files.  But the cut quality cannot be beat.

Lloyd
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Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2025, 18:35:23 pm »
Do you remember the beep plug-in?  I'm the one who asked for it, because calculating waterline finishes can take so long I forget the computer is generating code. 

Big files don't bother.  Code files hundreds of thousands of lines long are an every day thing.  Code files over a million lines of code are common, and code files of a few million lines of code are not uncommon. 

Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

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http://www.CNCMOLDS.com

Offline Garyhlucas

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2025, 14:43:59 pm »
Tool,
You know back when I was busting your chops on the Home Foundry forum about not using CNC I had know idea I was creating a monster!  You really ran with it.
Gary H. Lucas

Have you read my blog?
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Offline Tool-n-Around

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Re: 3D RESOLUTION BUG - TIED TO STEP OVER
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2025, 02:27:01 am »
Tool, You know back when I was busting your chops on the Home Foundry forum about not using CNC I had know idea I was creating a monster!  You really ran with it.

You were right! Now-a-days, if I can model it, I can machine it.

Best,
Kelly