Author Topic: New old watch...  (Read 63742 times)

Offline Arie kabaalstra

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New old watch...
« on: August 13, 2013, 09:18:56 am »
i've been bitten.. by the watch bug..

My father bought his first watch somewhere in the 60's.. but, working in construction.. the watch had a hard life.. and on some bad day... the crown broke from the winding stem... since then.. the watch had been lying around in a drawer somewhere..

since i succeeded in building 2 watchcases already.. i decided to take things a step further..Restoring the Old VERDAL Type Tour de France to it's former Glory..



this is the beginning.. an old worn down watch..

Upon opening the case i discovered that it had a Swiss ETA movement..also used by high-end marques like Tudor and Invicta.. so..i decided it was worth it..

So.. i measured up the case and the movement.. and drew it in 3D in Alibre design.



For work on such delicate parts.. a new tool was necessary.. a movement holder.. i drew a model in 3D, made DXF files, cut some aluminium, and went into the workshop..



Then i made CB files for the case contours..



the Sunburst milling was done with a parametric program.. in EdingCNC..

Code: [Select]
#1=0 ;STARTANGLE/WORKANGLE
#2=15.5 ;INNER RADIUS
#3=24 ;OUTER RADIUS
#4=37.75 ;CONE ANGLE
;PREPOSITIONING
G90 G61
T4M6
G00 X0 Y0 Z20
G00 Z2 M3

;CALCULATIONS
#2=[#2+#5009] ;INNER RADIUS+TOOLDIAMETER
#3=[#3+#5009] ;OUTER RADIUS+TOOLDIAMETER
#5=[#3-#2] ;DELTA RADIUS
#6=[360-#4] ;CORRECTED ANGLE
#7=[TAN[#6]*#5] ;Z-DEPTH


WHILE [#1<360]
GOSUB RAMP
#1=[#1+2.5]
ENDWHILE

M2

SUB RAMP
G00 X[COS[#1]*#2] Y[SIN[#1]*#2]
G01 Z0 F500
G01 X[COS[#1]*#3] Y[SIN[#1]*#3] Z#7 F2000
G00 Z2
ENDSUB

just a "rampdown" move, repeated at 2.5° intervals..

the case has a screwed back, so i had to make a thread mill to mill the thread in the case


and after hardening it.. i made it from toolsteel 1.2210, i went and cut the thread..



Finally i drilled the lugholes for the bracelet.. and the seat for the winding crown..

The watch has a temporary crown here.. i just ordered the crowns, and a saphire crystal 0.8 mm thick to go on top..

the dialface will also be made new..

This case is made of a piece of Aluminium i had lying around.. just for dimension checks really.. but.. since it turned out rather nicely.. i decided to have it anodized, and i ordered another Movement, same type.. i will make a second watch.. with this case.. the old movement wil get a similar case, made of titanium..i bought some leftover pieces from a company that makes hip joints..

Offline kvom

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 11:38:53 am »
superb work!

Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 11:47:28 am »
Arie,
Do you often machine titanium?

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"

Offline Arie kabaalstra

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 11:53:31 am »
i've never before machined titanium.. i once made a pair of titanium tweezers, because i was fed-up with those "antimagnetic" Stainless steel tweezers, that still picked up steel screws and springs of my model railroad locomotives..

it's hard, but not impossible... low cuttingspeed.. and Carbide tools must do the trick.. though i managed to make the tweezers with just a jigsaw, a drill, and some files and sandpaper.. oh.. and a hammer for riveting the legs together of course.. :)

Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 12:35:25 pm »
Certainly be careful of the surface speed, unless you use flood oil coolant.    Water is actually best, but it requires immersion or 'blast' flood cooling.  With water mist, you risk forming titanium hydride, which is undesirable.

Titanium has some nasty habits when it gets hot.

(we use a fair bit of it in pyrotechnics)

Lloyd
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 12:45:25 pm by lloydsp »
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Offline Arie kabaalstra

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 13:01:47 pm »
i know.. bright white sparks.. sometimes i play around with filings and a torch... :)
i will start with lowest revs, and see how it goes... luckily it's grade 2.. should be "quite machinable"

Offline Arie kabaalstra

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 16:03:57 pm »
Just did a test.. just surfacemilling the Titanium Bar i'm using to make the case.. 10000 Rpm's.. that's as slow as my machine will go.. 4 mm Carbide endmill, 400mm/min Feed, 0.5 mm D.O.C.. smooth as a baby arse.. really nice chips..real chips, not dust.. they're shiny as the balls in a christmastree.. this is the sort of thing that makes me a happy man.. one Titanium Watchcase on the way..

i cool with Lamp-oil... misting.. goes perfectly..me's happy! ;D

Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 16:46:37 pm »
THAT's cool, Arie!  I'm going to archive your feeds and speeds, and the alloy for future work.

Lloyd
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Offline Arie kabaalstra

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 17:34:59 pm »
Okay, Take out your little workshop notebook, and write down.. 120m/min Cuttingspeed, 7.5µm/tooth

Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 17:41:36 pm »
HEY!  That looks like some of my notes!
Lloyd
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Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2013, 18:07:09 pm »
BTW... I have a 1960's era Seiko "Bell-matic" in a rotten zinc case that I saved from my tour in Viet Nam.

You want to tackle that one?  It might take some work on the movement, too.  It's a quality movement, but not "Zeiss" quality.

Lloyd
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Offline Bubba

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2013, 18:45:41 pm »
it's hard, but not impossible... low cuttingspeed.. and Carbide tools must do the trick..

While back when, running conventional mill working for a major aircraft company machining a ton of different grade titanium I had best results using a cobalt wavy flutes endmills for rugh cuts. Usually 3/4"dia flooded, slow rpm and lots of feedrate. Usually endmill lasted the whole day. Finished with conventional Cobalt tool.  Carbide- Weldon, Niagara and other major brand endmills did not performed as well. When the prototype parts where send to be cut on the cnc's they upon my recommendation used the cobalt endmills as well. Shortly after do to EPA and other concerns the cnc machine shop and majority of conventional machining were sold and the work farmed out..
My 2¢

Win10 (64 bit, CB(1.0)rc 1(64 bit) Mach3, ESS, G540, Endurance Laser.

Offline dwc

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 18:51:02 pm »
I like your sunburst Arie and the case shape looks very '70s.
Great work!
Most titanium watch cases are grade 5, it is claimed that only grade 5 can be polished.
I have never worked it myself, I had my titanium cases made.
The prototype was brass.
Best,
Don


Offline Arie kabaalstra

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 19:56:44 pm »
Thank you Don.. as i mentioned before.. you are an inspiration to me.. i've really been bitten by the bug.. i purchased 2 ETA 2763 Calibers this week, some tubes, and crowns.. and 2 bottles of Koch Oil, to properly maintain these precious mechanisms..

As Adam Savage, and Jamie Hyneman proved in Mythbusters.. You CAN actually polish a turd.. but it will always be a turd.. in fact, ANY metal can be polished.. even mercury.. but you will have to freeze it first to make it solid.. :)

and.. maybe. i will not polish the case.. just grind it. i use fine grit sandpaper, pasted on a wooden stick, starting with 800, and down to 2500.. then on to Jewellers sandpaper.. up to 8/0, and to finish up.. just use a piece of paper.. works fine on Aluminium... i also have a piece of rubberfoam on a stick.. drenched in polishing agent.. that way, you can keep the edges sharp.. :)

That sunburst was an experiment.. but since my father really liked it.. and i grew fond of it.. i'll keep it that way..It does look rather 60's-70's.. and since my father bought the Verdal in the 60's, when he was just a teenager.. some years before i was born.. i think it really matches my objective to recreate this piece of family history...
The back is also sunburst machined.. since that is the easiest way to machine that particular shape.. since the lugs protrude 0.75 mm below the back of the watch. ( sorry Andy.. i wrote this piece of code by hand...  ;D )

Surprisingly.. the Kress motor has titanium for breakfast.. i can machine it on the lowest RPM's, still 120 m/min.. but when cutting 0.25 deep instead of 0.5 i can go 2½times as fast.. 1000mm/min.. that's 0.025mm/tooth. quite impressive..

Bubba, you're right about your cutting data.. rule of thumb for most metals is.. go as slow as possible, and let the teeth dig in.. if i encountered problems in production back when i was a toolmaker.. most problems were solved by cranking down cutting speed, and cranking up the feed..
I hope my home made 1.2210 mills will last.. they don't have to dig that deep.. but the thread, and the recess are critical.. if they last... i know i can make a titanium back as well..:).. and Don.. i will bevel the back with a sunburst as well.. it's gonna be my trademark.. :)

Maybe Lloyd, i will be able to "save" your watch.. but.. why not do it yourself?.. have the movement fixed by a local professional, and dream up your own case.. what kind of business card could possibly top that?..
i sent a job application to a dutch watchmaker.. i hope i have this one finished if he invites me over for application talks.. what kind of resumé can top that?..

Ok.. enough talk.. Picture time..!!

A piece of titanium bar.. i had to remove one jaw of the vice.. to fit the bar..  ;D


Then.. milling the outer contours.. CamBam did a great job.. i first roughed out with 0.3 mm stock..then 0.1, and finally a total depth finish..


and that gave me this result.. a little vibration visible.. will be ground and polished away.. will not perform total depth finishing again. this was a test.. this is the first time in my live i ever machined titanium..


Then.. onto machining the bottom and inside.. see the chips flying!.. Jay!..


The first recess cut.. this will become the thread..


and.. after some more noise, and a lot of chips..


the inside is now finished.. only the thread has to be made now.. but for that job i will have to change my mills.. will do that later this week..

Offline lloydsp

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Re: New old watch...
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 21:29:11 pm »
All good ideas, Arie, and a local watchmaker could certainly put the movement back in order.  But any time my mill is running, it's making parts for a contract.  I wish it were otherwise! (except, I do like the income!)

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"