Author Topic: Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie  (Read 6450 times)

Offline annuello

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Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie
« on: April 12, 2014, 05:17:33 am »
I have recently purchased Cambam v0.9.8N.  As a new user to this software, here are some observations/suggestions that may make Cambam easier for a new-comer.  All comments are regarding keyboard-based navigation.

Context: Perhaps these issues are more obvious to me as I am running Cambam on a laptop.  I can still get a lot done without a 3-button mouse, but effective keyboard navigation can make using the program very efficient.  The more navigation available (in a consistent uniform manner) via the keyboard arrows and tab/shift+tab, the easier Cambam is to use. 

Environment: Macbook Pro retina -> VirtualBox -> Win7.  I'm pretty sure key mappings are okay between host and VM since the observations are more along the lines of consistent key behaviour.

1) When the Drawing/System tabs have focus, I can press the Tab key to shift focus to Drawing Tree View (DTV) and Shift+Tab to return focus back to the Drawing/System tabs.  However, if I Tab once "beyond" the DTV, it is not clear where my keyboard focus has gone to.  I would expect the Object Property Window (OPW) to be the next window to receive focus, but this does not appear to be the case.  (The up/down arrows do not navigate through the various available parameters in the OPW.)  I suspect the focus has gone to a non-existent "mystery" window.

2) Pressing Tab once more (from the mystery focus state above) shifts focus to the Main Drawing Window (MDW), which allows me to scroll the work around using the arrow keys.  Nice.  However once the MDW has focus, no amount of Tab or Shift+Tab changes the focus to another window.  I would expect a subsequent Tab to perhaps shift focus to the menu bar, and Shift+Tab to shift focus back the OPW.  I assume that the OPW is the intended focus window for the "mystery" focus that I've described above.

3) The OPW has a expand/collapse tree structure similar to the DTV window, to group various parameters.  After clicking on one of the field names, the up/down arrows allow me to navigate through the entire list of fields including the expand/collapse nodes.  I would expect that the left/right arrows would collapse/expand these nodes as per the behaviour for the DTV tree.  I can't find any key shortcut to expand/collapse these tree nodes.

4) When an OPW parameter is active (i.e. the "name" part of the param is highlighted), I can type a number and what I type becomes the value for that field.... sort of.  If I type a negative number the "-" sign is ignored, so the value ends up being positive instead of negative.  (I consider this more a "bug" than a "feature request", but I'll leave that to Andy to decide.)  The current work-around is to start typing so focus shifts to the value text box, then delete what I've typed and start again, this time with the "-" sign.

5) When I type a new value but then change my mind, pressing <esc> restores the old value.  However, the focus is still inside the param value text box.  I have to press <enter> before I can navigate away via the up/down arrows.  (Not very intuitive.)  I would expect that pressing <esc> would both restore the previous value, and also shift focus to the param name rather than param value.  This would allow me to then use up/down arrows to continue navigating through the params.

6) If I want to revert an overridden (non-default) param value to the default value, for me the intuitive keyboard way would be:
- Navigate to the param name (using up/down)
- Press <delete> or <backspace>.  (This would clear any text in the param value, and set the focus to the param value text box.)
- Press <enter> to accept the "blank" value, which would cause it to inherit the default value.
Currently I have to enter a new value (to get focus to shift to the value text box), then delete the new value, then press <enter>.

7) For params that have a drop-down list of options (like "Region Fill Style"), the Alt+DownArrow does not seem intuitive to me.  I would expect the drop-down lists to work (from keyboard) as follows:
- Navigate to the param name (using up/down)
- Press <enter> to set focus to the drop-down list.  The options in the drop-down list become visible, with the selection on the current list value.
- Up/down allows us to select another value.
- <Enter> commits the new value, <Delete> restores to the default value, <Esc> restores the previous value prior to me editing it (like a "cancel edit").

I hope my comments make sense.  If not, just ask and I'll try to explain in a clearer way.  I am approaching this from the point of being a newbie, and bringing with me what I've come to expect from other programs which use the same basic UI features of text boxes, trees and drop-downs.

Of course, I'm very happy with Cambam and bought a licence after 4 trial-usages.  The above comments are thoughts for ongoing refinement of the program.  I'm not trying to talk it down in any way.

Annuello.

Offline pixelmaker

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Re: Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 12:07:23 pm »
hello,

I work on a mac Pro with Parallels Desktop and Win 7.
There is no switch between drawing window and other windows with shift+tab.
I can switch only from tree to other windows with tab.
But if i then in the drawing window the tab do nothing more. I can´t jump from drawing window in other areas.
I also can´t navigate with tab and arrow keys between options. Perhaps there is a special keyboard mapping for laptops in the virtual machine or in osx
The better solution is simply a magic mouse. That works great.

ralf

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 13:11:40 pm »
It amazes me that Apple will not give up on their one button mouse/trackpad which was an outdated idea in the 1990s. It is especially odd considering Jobs (or Woz, don't remember which) didn't even want to put a keyboard on the Mac.

Offline pixelmaker

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Re: Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2014, 14:43:42 pm »
Quote
that Apple will not give up on their one button mouse/trackpad
the mouse and the trackpad has a left and a right klick. The middle mouse button is a cmd+left click.
The trackpad without buttons is simple, the whole trackpad is the left mouse button and a click with two fingers is a right mouse click.
But I can scroll on mac also horizontal and work with gestures , what I can´t do in windows. It is fine for all work.
But there is in the second step the mapping to the virtual machine. In parallels desktop I can configure all in the way I want.
But if a software, like CB,  don´t work with tab to jump to the next option all will be difficult. To work only with the keyboard, if the window area don´t highlight and there is no jump to next option it makes no fun.
I can jump in CB with the tab key, but never know where I am landing.

ralf

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: Keyboard navigation comment from a newbie
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2014, 19:02:43 pm »
>>But I can scroll on mac also horizontal and work with gestures , what I can´t do in windows.

Sure you can do that on Windows, it all depends on the track pad hardware and version of windows what gestures are supported by the hardware and OS version, i.e. Windows 7 supports more than XP. While Apple only has a handful of pieces of hardware to support and can do what ever they want Windows actually works on tens of thousands of different hardware devices so you have to be a little more careful when choosing the hardware you use. My new Dell laptop for example came with Windows 7 and supports horizontal scrolling, pinch to zoom, etc. etc. I can also adjust the track pad driver to have it support what ever gestures I want.