Author Topic: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop  (Read 2678 times)

Offline Mark81

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Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« on: October 23, 2019, 10:13:53 am »
Hi guys,
I know some people here use CNCs for their job. Until now for me was just a hobby.
Recently, instead, I began to make some stuff for my customers. But I have no real experience in a real workshop... so I have few questions about. They might appear silly, and perhaps they are ;D but I don't know anyone who has this kind of job nearby!

Thus, I wonder if these type of questions are tolerated here even if not directly related to CamBam itself.
Anyway,I guess this should be the most suitable section of the forum - given the lack of an "off-topic" section.

Offline lloydsp

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 10:47:29 am »
Oh, I think if it relates to you using your own machines, the questions would be acceptable.  We've all asked questions about 'shop practices' now and again.

This SIG would be as good as any in which to ask them.

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 14:47:16 pm »
Fire away. 
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com

Offline Mark81

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2019, 09:59:58 am »
Thanks! I really appreciate it :D

1. How to keep your machine clean?
My CNC has hidden screws, but exposed Hiwin sliders. After each job I clean them with compressed air, then using a cloth and eventually restore the lubricant. When I machine wood this operation is pretty fast, but when I machine Alu it's a mess! The metal shavings glue everywhere because they are mixed with the lubricant (honestly I tried with water/alchool but they seem not effective as WD-40, unfortunately). Compressed air is not enough to blow them away, and I'm afraid to have metal shavings on the sliders during the machining time. Am I paranoid?  ;D

2. How do you keep your workshop clean?
I'm not worried about dust and shavings on the floor. But there's always a thick layer of dust everywhere. Also on the PC or other electronic equipments. Of course, even if I blow it with compressed air, after few hours it will fall again... I just have to learn to live with it?

3. How do you store you favourite bits?
Over the years, I bought a lot of bits to test them and to find which are the most suitable ones for each job.
Some problems:
 a) most of them don't have a clear label that states which kind of tool is
 b) after some time, I didn't recall what bit I must use of each job (actually, MOP)

So I'm going to make a custom bit holder (with CamBam, of course ;D) where I can store my favourite bits. I will place a label for each one with the tool number, description and vendor/order code.
Then I have to keep them in sync with CamBam tool table and update all my project files with the correct numbers.

Other ideas?
About the numbering: do you use any criteria? i.e.: tool 1-10 wood, 2-flutes, upcut, different diameters, 11-20 same but downcut, 21-30 metal 1-flute, etc... Or you just assign a progressive number randomly?

4. Vacuum cleaner
I bought a "professional" vacuum cleaner (https://www.holz-metall.info/shop1/artikel2094.htm) and made a custom attachment for my spindle, but I found it's not very handy to use. It actually reduce a lot the dust, but you have zero visibility during machining. Few times a small piece of wood jumped out and I broke the tool because is was stuck there. Instead, without the attachment, I would have easily blowed it away with compressed air.

Do you use the vacuum cleaner attached to the spindle?


5. Vacuum table
I've never worked with a vacuum table, so I don't know if it can be suitable for my needs. I would use it for two main purposes:
 a) cutting of "large" piece of plywood (400x600 mm). Clamping it on the border cannot prevent the rising of inner parts when removing a lot of islands inside.
 b) engraving two-colors ABS sheets (like Gravoply 3C) where I need to engrave at 0.1 mm and 0.3 mm deep. Clamping the sheet, leads it flexing in the middle (only 0.1 mm is way too much!). Furthermore, using an upcut tool is not possible because it will pull the whole sheet upwards. Instead, using a downcut tool resolves this problem but is very hard to keep the tool clean from ABS debris.

I think (but I'm not sure) that a vacuum table might solve both problems, but I don't understand some things:
 a) how to use a sacrifical layer? I have to drill holes aligned with the table? And how I would fix it on the table itself?
 b) it works if the stock is smaller than the table? What about the "free" holes?
 c) how much noise makes the vacuum pump?

Thank you in advance for any hints.

Offline onekk

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2019, 10:24:40 am »
My two cents.

For vacuum tables, from my searching (I have your problem too) there are two types of tables:

with valvles that close the unused holes, mostly commercial tables have such an arrangements, but I don't know how they are made and if they are reproducible on DIY tables.

without valvles, and generally the problem is resolved using shets of material to close the unused holes.

but wait here if there are some professional users that may have some more "professional" hints.

Regards

Carlo D.

Carlo D. (onekk)

eShapeoko #343 750x1000 mm + GRBL + bCNC + CamBam

Offline dh42

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2019, 18:14:47 pm »
Quote
5. Vacuum table
 a) how to use a sacrifical layer? I have to drill holes aligned with the table? And how I would fix it on the table itself?

A rubber plate is used as sacrificial layer (it's consumable) and also to prevent the plate to cut from slipping on the vacuum table.
http://www.metabricoleur.com/t7543p125-mechmate-tarnaise-mise-au-point-suite#162728

https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Vacuum-Technology/Hole-rubber-mat/

Quote
b) it works if the stock is smaller than the table? What about the "free" holes?

You can also use a rubber plate to cover the holes (without holes of course) ; you can see them on the previous link.

other pictures here
http://www.metabricoleur.com/t7257-coffrets-pour-i-micros#128940

Quote
c) how much noise makes the vacuum pump?

too much  ::) ... mine is given for 66 db ...

https://www.sorotec.de/shop/Side-channel-blower-1-5-kW----260-mbar-double-stage-6828.html

++
David
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 20:31:56 pm by dh42 »

Offline dh42

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2019, 18:32:32 pm »
re

Quote
After each job I clean them with compressed air

Not a good idea the compressed air ; it can "push" the dust into the carriage even if they have joints.

Quote
2. How do you keep your workshop clean?

Cabine ;)
http://www.metabricoleur.com/t3445p75-cnc-bzt-pf-750p-n2#87301

Quote
4. Vacuum cleaner

Yep ...100mm tube it take a lot of room ... I switched to 50mm tube and a workshop vacuum cleaner + thien.

The dust shoes is fixed on the X axis and do not move in Z with the spindle.

http://www.metabricoleur.com/t10245p75-installation-bzt-pfe500-px#200619

Quote
3. How do you store you favourite bits?

I don't know the english term for that  ;D ;D  ::)

++
David
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 18:34:21 pm by dh42 »

Offline lloydsp

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2019, 20:23:48 pm »
He's asking how you keep your cutters organized.

As for the dust shoe, I have a 100mm flex tube on mine, and it collects _almost_ every chip.  I think it has more to do with the power of the vacuum than the size of the tube (or maybe both).  But... to be fair, I cut mostly PVC foam sheeting, and the chip-collection properties of that might be different than some other materials

FWIW, we once used MDF wood sheets for this same product, and it collected those chips well, also.

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Fifty Years"

Offline dh42

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2019, 20:30:16 pm »
Quote
He's asking how you keep your cutters organized.

Yes I understood ;D .... and I know no word than can describe my organization ... certainly something like "mess"   :D :D

++
David

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 00:56:16 am »
Keeping your shop clean... wow!  I don't know.  

For me its a constant struggle to just remember where I last used a tool.  I spent all afternoon yesterday just cleaning off my welding table.  A 4ft x 8ft welding table.  My shop is 50ft x 60ft.  Now I just have to clean off every other horizontal surface in the shop.  By the time I do that the welding table will probably be piled twice as deep as it was before I cleared it off.  

I made four handles for die holders today, and by the time I was ready to knurl the last piece one had managed to disappear.  I wound up making a fifth one.  That's not the bad part.  When I do find that missing handle I'm going to wonder what it was for and it will go in a drawer of parts that "look like they are 'for something' but I can't remember what."  It will probably rest in that drawer for the rest of my life.  LOL

« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 01:00:46 am by Bob La Londe »
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com

Offline Garyhlucas

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 18:57:32 pm »
Chip handling in a vacuum is mostly about air velocity to keep the chips suspended in the flow. Velocity has to do with the vacuum level you can generate too. A multistage blower with a high vacuum makes a big difference too.  A 100mm hose has 4 times the volume of a 50mm hose so 1/4 the velocity. So if you are not generating chips fast enough to clog the hose a 50mm hose will work a lot better. A narrow nozzle will b pick up heavy chips because it increases velocity. When the chips go into a large hose the velocity drops and they may just settle out plugging the hose.
Gary H. Lucas

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Offline imr700x

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2019, 08:34:16 am »
2. How do you keep your workshop clean?

I don't use dust collection because my shop vac makes more noise than my router so I just use it to clear the chips when they build up every ten minutes or so.

The dust buildup in the shop is taken care of on rainy and windy nights with the doors open and a few minutes with a leaf blower

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 14:17:20 pm »
The dust buildup in the shop is taken care of on rainy and windy nights with the doors open and a few minutes with a leaf blower
  … and a dust mask I hope. 
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com

Offline imr700x

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2019, 05:57:41 am »
 … and a dust mask I hope. 
[/quote]

Good call Bob but I use a battery powered air supplied hood that I used to use when copy routing MDF in another life,but when it hasn't rained for a while a dust mask wouldn't keep the dust out of my eyes and hardwood dust can be quite abrasive particularly as my lungs and eyes are as old as I am.  ;D

Offline Mark81

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Re: Questions about practical issues while working in a workshop
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2019, 08:10:47 am »
Sorry for the delay!

Thanks for your answers.
My vacuum has a diameter of 100 mm, but at the and I reduce it to 50 mm in order to fit the adapter.
Instead of the vacuum table, I ordered this device:

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/32801756145.html

I hope it could hold the pieces during machining.