Author Topic: False cuts and weird glitches  (Read 10975 times)

Offline lesthegringo

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False cuts and weird glitches
« on: June 17, 2020, 07:21:57 am »
Hi all

I've been using CamBam for a while now, for the most part successfully but not without some odd glitches. I'm making a simulator cockpit, mainly using MDF, plywood and acrylic, and CamBam is used in conjunction with one of those Chines clone 3040 CNC routers and a smaller 3018 CNC router. I would have posted here before but for some reason had issues gaining access to the forum, happily that has been resolved.

I am aware that the CNC boards on those Chinese machines can give issues, however there are times when I have produced .nc files with CamBam using either .dxf files from Qcad or .stl files from Solidworks where there have been odd glitches in the .nc that are repeatable, therefore appear to be within the code itself.

A good example is where I had a series of holes to be drilled all to the same depth on a flat (2D) part. A lot of the holes will be fine, then it gets to a particular one and does not lift before traversing to the next hole, either machining a groove in the part or snapping the cutter. Attempts to repeat it will have exactly the same result, so as I said it is repeatable.

Yesterday I was doing some 3D machining to gain experience prior to attempting some more advanced parts. I had three goes at producing the code, and each one had a repeatable error, one that was irritating but still allowed the part to be produced successfully, but two times ruining the part. On the 'successful' version, when cutting out a rectangular pocket that required 8 or so successive depth cuts, it would get about halfway through the cut, then perform a bizarre set of movements with it cutting across the corners of the cut, returning, jinking back and forth a few times, then going about halfway across the diagonal cut and then slowing to a crawl until reaching a certain point, then continuing with the rest of the cut as if nothing had happened. It did this on every pass.

With the two unsuccessful versions, one had it traverse to the next cut without lifting, so cutting the part in two, and the other had it inventing some cuts on a part of the component that bore no relation to anything. When it happened the movement was very jerky and violent, as if there were conflicting instructions being sent to the motors. Note that after each unsuccessful attempt I had CamBam regenerate the code, but did 'air cuts' to see if the faults would replicate, which they did

Is this a recognised issue? If so is there anything that I can do to reduce the chances of these errors? My 'simple' test piece had over 9500 lines of code, so there is no way I could plough through all that to check.

Any guidance on this would be gratefully received

Cheers

Les

Offline dh42

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2020, 18:28:46 pm »
Hello

Welcome to the forum.

When you encounter problem, attach the .cb file so it is possible for other users to check the file and help you.

Quote
My 'simple' test piece had over 9500 lines of code, so there is no way I could plough through all that to check.

There is one ; use a 3D machining simulator ;)

http://www.atelier-des-fougeres.fr/Cambam/Aide/Plugins/Simu_camotics.html

https://camotics.org/manual.html

++
David
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 18:30:48 pm by dh42 »

Offline lesthegringo

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2020, 05:19:00 am »
Thanks, I have attached the 'successful' code, the other two were overwritten so no longer available.

As for the simulator programs, I'm curious to see so will take a look!

***Edited****

I downloaded Camiotics (the standalone program) and the plugin (I put it in the CamBam plugins folder, hope that's correct). I ran the .nc file in Camiotics, and it does not appear to show the glitch I described earlier, although there was a bit of jerky movement that was not evident during the actual machining - I imagine that's just a vagary of Camiotics.

Anyway, I am forced to conclude that the CamBam .nc file is OK and that there is some kind of conflict happening with the CNC controller in my CNC router. The one I predominantly use is the one like the photo attached, so all I can now do is ask if anyone has any recommendations for better CNC control hardware, that connects via USB of course!


Thanks for the response


Les
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 06:05:28 am by lesthegringo »

Offline driedeker

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2020, 06:53:02 am »
the .nc file is no good for us we need the .cb file you could loose the controler board and fit a uc100/400 type controler.
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Offline lesthegringo

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2020, 09:48:51 am »
Apologies, thought you wanted the .nc file - here's the .cb file as requested

Cheers

Les

Offline EddyCurrent

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2020, 10:06:49 am »
With regard to the toolpaths, they worked fine for me and they also looked okay in CutViewer simulator.

It was really nice to see defualt parameters left alone rather than them being altered for no particular reason and causing more issues.

Was there a reason you had the top positioned at -0.5mm ?

The tool number was left at 0 which is not a good idea, get used to using the tool library and create your own library. Tool 0 is a special case that does not call for a tool change if the job consists of multiple tools.

This could be cut using 2.5D methods but the slight roundover on part of the upper edge would then be problematic.
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Offline lesthegringo

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 11:07:47 am »
Thanks for looking at the file

The depth was set to -0.5 just so that I could guarantee a flat top surface, as the router bed is not completely flat, plus any subsequent 2D machining has a good datum surface to work on.

I agree that this particular test piece could be done with 2D techniques, but as mentioned it was a simple test to verify some things for me and at the same time produce a part that I could use. There will be more parts down the line once I have a bit more confidence that are more needy of 3D work, but for me this is the start of the learning process. As for the default settings, if the people who are clever enough to write this program think that they are decent settings, who am I to argue?

So fundamentally then, it appears that the code is fine, but the CNC hardware in the form of the processing board are where the issue probably lies. I have to say it had occurred to me that it was so but had no proof either way, but now I seem to have it. After all is said and done the CNC board in the router control box is OK for what I need , apart from the glitching. If there is a commercially available board that I could replace it with with the minimum of cutting wires or boxes then I would like to know about it. I suppose it's too much to hope for that there is a drop in replacement out there....?!   

Thanks again for all the assistance, it's appreciated

Les

Offline EddyCurrent

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 12:10:43 pm »
This link is to an excellent forum for cnc information, they have a section for your machine here ;http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/296-Chinese-Machines?s=092f103f28ecd5f27b242d223e8c737c
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 12:12:18 pm by EddyCurrent »
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Offline dh42

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2020, 19:04:26 pm »
Hello

Quote
so all I can now do is ask if anyone has any recommendations for better CNC control hardware, that connects via USB of course!

Currently, the machine is driven through an USB or a parallel port ? What software is used to drive the machine ?

++
David

Offline lesthegringo

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 09:26:05 am »
Hi there

It's a USB connection, and the software is USB CNC

Cheers

Les

Offline dh42

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 14:06:34 pm »
Hello

Did you try to slow down the values for the rapids and/or acceleration. Most of the time it can help when the machine lose steps.

Quote
the software is USB CNC

Eding Cnc ?

for the axis settings, see page 16, Vel.(au/s) and Acc (au/s^2) ; what are your settings ?

https://www.edingcnc.com/upload/files/usbcnc_man_v4.00.pdf

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David

Offline lesthegringo

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 07:09:14 am »
The actual software is actually called CNC USB (apologies for getting it the wrong way round in a previous post) and is from a company called Planet CNC.

However I am using a version that runs on an old Win XP laptop, as I couldn't get the original software to work with the router controller with a Win 10 laptop. I should try to see if there is a newer win 10  compatible version and try that. I'd got so used to using it as is that it didn't occur to me earlier. It's only when I went to the 'about' tab that it came back to me.

However I also used CamBam's code with Universal Gcode Sender on the smaller 3018 router / engraver and that would also have glitches, and the drilling operations were always the worst.

Nonetheless, it needs to be checked with the newer hardware before I trouble you all again.

Cheers

Les

Offline dh42

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Re: False cuts and weird glitches
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2020, 17:14:53 pm »
Hello

Quote
The actual software is actually called CNC USB (apologies for getting it the wrong way round in a previous post) and is from a company called Planet CNC.

Ok, in this case, the settings for max speed (G0) and acceleration are shown page 125 there are given in current units
https://planet-cnc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/CNCUSBController.pdf

So you must also check what unit is used (inch / mm) ; general setting page 113

Maybe the maximum speed and/or acceleration must be reduced to avoid steps lose.

Quote
However I also used CamBam's code with Universal Gcode Sender on the smaller 3018 router / engraver and that would also have glitches, and the drilling operations were always the worst.

This case is different ;  the software do not really "drive" the machine, but it send GCode line to the arduino, so it the board that do all the job. The problem is that this kind of board works with a "simplified" Gcode called GRBL ... and GRBL do no know some Gcode commands like drilling cycles (G81/82/83), toolchange M6), etc ...

In CamBam, if you select a post processor for GRBL, two of the three drilling cycle can be simulated with G1 moves by the post processor and so the G1 moves can be understand by GRBL (G81 G82 = drill and drill with a delay at the bottom) but the peek drilling (G83) can't be simulated  by the post processor with G1 moves  so G83 will never works with GRBL.

If you use a "default" (or other) post processor, all the drilling commands will be written with G81/82/83 and none of those drill Gcode will be recognized by the GRBL so drill will never works. It is a limitation of GRBL.

With this machine, you can to drive it with the GRBL machine plugin directly from CamBam ; the plugin do the same as UGS except that it is able to simulate the M6 (toolchange)

http://www.atelier-des-fougeres.fr/Cambam/Aide/Plugins/GRBLmachine.html

++
David