Author Topic: Incorrect Soft Limit warning  (Read 393 times)

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2020, 09:16:03 am »
The plot thickens !!

I tried to 'Cut Air' this morning but when I loaded the .NC file into the [Live] system I could see an issue with the 'Toolpath Display'.    Due to the position of the screen and the time of day, sunlight was causing a bit of a problem so I moved the Mach3 window to a second screen. This allowed me to see that on the [Live] system there are 'Crop Circles' !!!!

Attached are 4 images - on the [Live] system I don't have Photoshop installed so couldn't do a simple [Screen Grab] and had to resort to photographs, which I took of the Toolpath Display, the Code in the normal code window and the same part of the code in the Editing window. The image of the [Sim] system is a Screen Grab.

Now, as far as I can tell - I haven't been through each system with a fine tooth comb - the two systems are set up exactly the same apart from the fact that the [Live] system has the Ethernet controller Drivers installed and naturally has the Router attached.

You'll see that on the [Live] system, the code in the Code Window repeats line N4950 ad infinitum whereas in the Code Editor it only appears once being followed as you would expect by N4960 etc.

On the [Sim] Sytem the 'Crop Circles' don't appear  -  I must stress at this point that the files loaded into each are IDENTICAL  --  ie. it is the same .NC file -  and in the code window line N4950 is followed by N4960.

These three consecutive lines :

N4940 G3 X-19.7498 Y13.3317 I-0.6373 J1.576
N4950 G2 X-17.9365 Y16.5366 I96.6897 J-52.5887
N4960 G1 X-17.9327 Y16.5431

...look a little odd to me due to the vast difference in the I and J parameters but since one is a G3 and the next a G2 I may be looking for a problem that doesn't exist. I am wondering though if making the G2 a G1 and removing the I & J - thereby creating a straight line rather than an arc may actually solve the problem ??   but why is there a problem in the first place?

I cannot tell why the two systems treat the same file differently, nor why the [Live] system repeats N4950 when 'in use' but not when editing - that simply doesn't make any sense.  ???  so I'd be grateful for any 'pointers' as to what steps I might take  ---  is my idea of changing the arc to a line viable?  sensible?

It's also odd that both systems throw up a soft limits warning but in different axes  -  and the [Sim] doesn't show anything 'out of bounds'.







Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2020, 09:57:02 am »
Further thoughts - - - -

Because this code is simply 13 repeats of the same code (after initial positioning set up) amounting to 64 lines each, how can the eighth repeat cause a problem that Mach3 interprets as 'stop here and repeat line 39' instead of 'move on to line 40' ?

I have now checked all lines in the code and can confirm that the figures in all but one of the 64 lines are identical - the first line being the change in the Z axis of course.


Offline dave benson

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2020, 13:32:48 pm »
If you are using an Ethernet controller like the smooth stepper then you should be using the
Mach3 version .62
What you are describing is caused by not using the settings in the Mach3 manual see pic.
some earlier versions of Mach3 have buggy soft limits issues.
These parameters can be set in the Mach3 General config page.
Distance mode = Absolute.
IJ Mode = INC.
Change these values on your machine controller and if all is well, then copy the Mach3 config
file (in the Mach3 folder to your cnc computer to the other computer.

Dave

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2020, 13:59:00 pm »
Thanks for the input Dave.   Again this is a bridge I've crossed earlier and I do have IJ Mode set as INC and distance as Absolute. I have just checked the 'version' and see that it is R2.0.061 so I have to presume that you suggest re-installing after downloading R2.0.062.

That may make a difference but I'm not totally convinced and I'm still investigating what difference the CamBam Post-Processor parameters for Maximum Arc Radius and Minimum Arc Length make.  The last setting I used (0.1 and 10000) still had a 'Crop Circle' on the [Live] system (but in a different position) and the code in the Code Window stopped at line N4900 but the display beyond that was not a repeat.  I'm about to try 0.1 and 1000.


Offline Dragonfly

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2020, 14:57:02 pm »
Quote
Distance mode = Absolute.
IJ Mode = INC.
What Dave said.
Those have nothing to do with CB mi/max arc length settings.
There is more than one way to program an arc move in G-code, can be incremental, can be absolute. Both CB and Mach3 must use one and and the same.

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2020, 18:34:14 pm »
Thanks Dragonfly - I'm sure you've now seen my reply to Dave confirming that I already have those settings in place.

I've had a busy day investigating the issue but with many distractions due to groundworks contractors needing my attention  >:(      I have at least got rid of the 'crop circle' issue though no matter what I set the max arc radius and min arc length to didn't sort it. I was able to determine where the 'circle' originated and could then remove just one [node] and it vanished.

I still had the soft limits warning but could see no 'out of bounds' on the toolpath display and 'cutting air' didn't cause a problem --- EXCEPT ---  the job stopped dead at line N4950 ??   This is on the [Live] system. It ran it's full course on the [Sim] system.   Thinking 'outside the box' I then re-named the Mach3 'Profile' on the [Live] system and copied the profile from the [Sim] system.  I had thought that they were the same but looking at the file time-stamp there were potential differences, simply because the time-stamps were not the same --- the [Sim] was a day later.

Re-starting Mach3 - with all the usual caveats of [Reset] etc. - I re-loaded the same file and that also stopped dead at line N4950.   :(

I'm now wondering if I have an issue with the fact that I'm still evaluating the version of Mach3 that was supplied with the Denford which indicates 'Demo Version' when I ask it to display [About Mach3 CNC Controller] ?   The system was supplied with a licenced Laptop PC which failed after a week so I had to build a new (well, re-furbished) system and re-install from scratch. Though why the [Sim] system runs the full 832 lines and the [Live] system stops at about 500 doesn't make sense.

Up to now I've only run hand coded programs amounting to 150 or so lines - about 3k  -  but this [Latch Rough] program is 33k.

Irrespective of this possibility, there is still the issue of the [Soft Limit] warning which hasn't been resolved.

I've now just opened a test piece (on the [Live] system)  that I did a while back and amounts to 791 lines and that also stops dead at about 500 lines !!   but runs fully on the [Sim] system.

Have I found my problem? ---- albeit not one I thought I had :)    It's obviously time to prize the wallet open!  Which I don't see as a problem but it is a little disconcerting to discover after buying a 'working' system.








Offline dh42

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2020, 18:44:39 pm »
Hello

Quote
I've now just opened a test piece (on the [Live] system)  that I did a while back and amounts to 791 lines and that also stops dead at about 500 lines !!   but runs fully on the [Sim] system.

A demo version of mach3 (without license) is limited to 500 lines of Gcode when a machine is connected, but works for the full number of lines if no machine is connected (10 millions) so it is normal that it works on your test system but not on the real one.

https://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/#tabs-3

Quote
so I have to presume that you suggest re-installing after downloading R2.0.062.

Are you sure for the version number ?

The last "stable" version of Mach3 is the 3.043.062 ; you can found it here

https://warp9td.com/index.php/sw/software-mach#MachThree

++
David
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 18:51:44 pm by dh42 »

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2020, 20:13:18 pm »
I have reported here before on soft limit warnings for code that does not actually hit the soft limits. 

It usually happened (not always) when using 3D waterline machining methods.  The machine IS properly zeroed when it happens and the offset correctly set to the work piece.  It has happened in X & Y at different times.  I ran the code after double checking everything and didn't have an issue. 

Since going to quick change tooling with tool height offsets set in the tool table I now sometimes get false alerts for Z max.  I think its atleast partially a Mach 3 issue as I have never had it happen on my PathPilot (LinuxCNC) controlled machine.  Interestingly in several cases I have checked the tool path screen and physically jogged the machine past all visible tool paths and neither showed a soft limits over travel.  The tool path screen shows the travel limits of the program in numerical units. 

I would caution you not to ignore it though.  I have once or twice, and when the machine stopped  I found things like forgetting to mirror an operation causing actual limits violations.  Always check to make sure its a glitch, and not a real issue. 

I would also suggest zeroing to your work piece and setting your work offset prior to loading code.  If you do make a change after code is loaded click the regenerate toolpaths button before hitting start. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 20:16:31 pm by Bob La Londe »
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

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Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2020, 16:04:20 pm »
I have reported here before on soft limit warnings for code that does not actually hit the soft limits. ...
As far as I'm concerned Bob - that is very good news.   It doesn't solve my issues but at least I can take comfort in knowing that neither me or my system are 'round the twist' !!

I've done quite a bit of investigating over the past 24 hours (when I haven't been needed for instruction or advise on garden matters  >:( )  and I think that I have an idea as to why the soft limit warning presents itself. -----  Looking at the [Diagnostics] tab -- (incidentally Alt f7 does not open it)  --  I see the 'current position' X recorded as -24.6781 and the 'Machine Coord' consequently at -224.6781. Now. to me that is a soft-limit error since my X min is -200. How those figures are realised is beyond my ken but it could well be the source of the warning. If that is the case then, as you have discovered, soft-limit errors are not necessarily 'gospel' and, with due diligence, may well be ignored.


 

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2020, 16:25:40 pm »
A demo version of mach3 (without license) is limited to 500 lines of Gcode when a machine is connected, but works for the full number of lines if no machine is connected (10 millions) so it is normal that it works on your test system but not on the real one.

Thanks for that assurance David - at least I now know that it isn't some setting that I've compromised.

Quote from: dh42
Quote
so I have to presume that you suggest re-installing after downloading R2.0.062.

Are you sure for the version number ?

The last "stable" version of Mach3 is the 3.043.062 ; you can found it here
Further investigation turns up the fact that my [LIVE] system is indeed 3.043.062, it is my [Simulator] system that is R2... 

I now suspect that the [Simulator] is a hang-over from when I first looked at using Mach3 some years ago and I didn't find the need to re-install it when I actually bought a means to use it.  It never previously ocured to me to look at the version number.

Since I only use the [Sim] system as a quick/dirty means to check the overall effecasy of the G-Code as it is on my Office system along with CB, CorelDRAW! etc. whereas the [Live] system is a dedicated PC running only Mach3 and is in my workshop, will it matter that much if I simply leave R2... as is?






Offline dh42

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2020, 16:51:54 pm »
Hello
Quote
will it matter that much if I simply leave R2... as is?

IMHO it is better to use the same version on both, so you "should" have the same results on both ..  ;)

++
David

Offline Bob La Londe

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2020, 17:52:24 pm »
I have reported here before on soft limit warnings for code that does not actually hit the soft limits. ...
As far as I'm concerned Bob - that is very good news.   It doesn't solve my issues but at least I can take comfort in knowing that neither me or my system are 'round the twist' !!

I've done quite a bit of investigating over the past 24 hours (when I haven't been needed for instruction or advise on garden matters  >:( )  and I think that I have an idea as to why the soft limit warning presents itself. -----  Looking at the [Diagnostics] tab -- (incidentally Alt f7 does not open it)  --  I see the 'current position' X recorded as -24.6781 and the 'Machine Coord' consequently at -224.6781. Now. to me that is a soft-limit error since my X min is -200. How those figures are realised is beyond my ken but it could well be the source of the warning. If that is the case then, as you have discovered, soft-limit errors are not necessarily 'gospel' and, with due diligence, may well be ignored.

I would suggest that you jog the machine beyond all shown toolpaths to make sure before running code. 
Getting started on CNC?  In or passing through my area?
If I have the time I'll be glad to show you a little in my shop. 

Some Stuff I Make with CamBam
http://www.CNCMOLDS.com

Offline dh42

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2020, 18:12:40 pm »
Just to be sure, are your axis moving in the right direction ?

For X, the tool must go to the right side of the workpiece for X+ and to the left for the X-

note that it is the relative move of the tool compared to the workpiece that must be taken in account, so if it is the spindle that move, it must go to the right for X+, but if it is the table that move, it must go to the left for X+ (and of course it is the same rules for Y and Z)

++
David

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2020, 19:30:27 pm »
Hello
Quote
will it matter that much if I simply leave R2... as is?

IMHO it is better to use the same version on both, so you "should" have the same results on both ..  ;)

I'm firmly in the camp of   "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"   but I do appreciate that both systems using the same version "ought" to be beneficial.   I therefore did take you advice and regretted it within moments :(   

The first thing I did was to make sure I closed down the running instance of Mach3 - - - -  absolutely the 'normal' thing to do.  Imagine my surprise when the new installation immediately complained that it couldn't install because Mach3 was already running ???

I finished up having to completely re-boot my system! 

Now it is installed there are (of course) minor differences. The screen display was the first 'issue' but I do know how to change that and I'll now copy the .set file from the [Live] system so that even those are 'congruent'. I haven't been to the workshop to compare the reality so I'm having to rely on my memory but It looks to me as though the Toolpath display has been given a recent small makeover since I don't remember the tool height display at the right hand side so it may be that I've now downloaded the Win10 capable version whereas in July (the [Live] system) I avoided that since I knew I would be using XP.

It's been an 'interesting' couple of days and I have learned a great deal but I still haven't eradicated the [Soft Limits] warning.


Just noticed that you've posted again David.     Yes, my +X is to the right and -X to the left. The Y axis is a Table move with +'ve to the back and -'ve to the front. Z naturally is +'ve Up.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 17:12:21 pm by JG »

Offline JG

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Re: Incorrect Soft Limit warning
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2020, 17:21:50 pm »
The Soft Limits warning seems to have disappeared. It was still there after I'd changed Min Arc Length to 0.1 and Max Arc  Radius back to 10000 (from 1000)  but G-Code created from the same drawing now doesn't give me the warning.

Most disconcerting when a problem just 'goes away'   ???