Author Topic: one-off mold for dust boot  (Read 22539 times)

Offline kjlpdx

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one-off mold for dust boot
« on: November 07, 2020, 20:58:09 pm »
when plans to 3D print this fell thru i decided to try a one-off, quick and dirty method from fiberglass.  spent little time sanding the mold halves, then coated them with a coat of resin.  two coats of floor paste wax, and laid them up wet.  they actually came out of the mold fairly easily without a lot of damage, not that i need to reuse them.  i will cut a 80mm plug for the router hole and a 4" plug for the vac hole and glass the pieces together, then likely build up the thickness some more.  there are several layers of bias glass right now.  small scraps actually laid up the nicest.  this boot wont win any beauty contests, but that isnt a goal.  i dont even know if it will work as planned.  the traditional boot loses all vacuum when the boot is only partially over the material being milled.  i don't know if i've choked the air flow down too much.  we'll see.  not that much invested in this so far, other than time relearning fusion360 after several years off.  the 3D version was much more complex with cam straps and brush holder flanges and such.  if others have tried this or similar method i'd love to hear what your experience was.

Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 21:29:51 pm »
Pretty neat.  Do you plan do have a rim of bristles of some type over the suction end that encloses the router bit?  That helps retain good suction at and around the bit cutting area.

I've had the best success out of using 2 liter, clear soft drink plastic bottles with plexiglass and PVC couplers for elbows-to-vac hose connection.  I think I've posted pics of this before on CB.  I know I have on other CNC forums.  Here are some pics of a "simple but elegant" solution.  I have several versions.  Of course I'm not using a spindle but rather a Porter Cable router.

As my router's exhaust is directed downward, I have a sloped, flat disk that deflects the majority of exhaust laterally through the side of the "bottle".  The vac hose attaches below this disk via the coupling manifold.  The plastic bottle has built-in brush bristles, too.  You just have to "free" them from their contraints.

Here is an .DOC document I wrote in MS Word 2010 a few years back describing its creation.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 18:54:12 pm by airnocker »
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Offline kjlpdx

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2020, 04:25:24 am »
airnocker, i took your suggestion and made a pop bottle skirt.  my design turns out to create a real tornado, so strong that even the fairly stiff pop bottle fringe gets sucked in a bit.  i decided that the vacuum hose was too far from the spindle and ran the boot thru the band saw to shorten it.  so much for all the fancy fusion360 lofting.  the two parts now match within a 1/4"!  i will change my 3D model for the next prototype.
i may make the next dust boot using a plug rather than a mold.  i realize that building from layers of fiberglass, while quite strong, lack a lot of detail, and that sharp edges are impossible without vacuum bagging.  i will need some foam that can be easily melted.  i know styrofoam melts with gasoline, but it really lacks the ability to carve any detail being so "beady".  anyone have suggestions?  i suppose too, i could cut half pieces and then turn them over and mill the backsides.  i did this once for a big wooden spoon.  the question would be what material to carve for this project?
i like carving mold pieces from rigid pink foam.  has anyone experimented with making molds, both the female and male, and then coating the female mold and using the male to force the mold material around in a uniform thickness, like injection molding but without the pressure, and then clamp them together until the material sets up?  there are several additives for fiberglass resin that might work which make the resin thick like toothpaste.  this part needn't be perfect or gorgeous, just robust.
anyway, my turbo design appears to have great potential.  when milling with an 1/8" bit it is difficult to remove the wood chips.  this design puts all the vacuum right over the cutter, not offset by inches sucking thru bristles.  i will continue to try different ideas.

Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2020, 04:43:25 am »
I use a Dust Buster in series with my vacuum source, so the dust is separated and falls in a 5 gallon bucket and not the clog up the vacuum filter.  My vac hose diameter where it attaches at the dust boot is 1-1/4".  The vacuum source is a Nilfisk GS-90 vacuum cleaner.  I've used shop vacs as the vac source but got tired of their loud whine.  The pop bottle bristles extend down into the cutting surface so they bend and fold in or out about 1/2", their bent direction changes a bit depending on the direction of the router on the X and Y axis.  Their friction from being dragged around on the cutting surface prevents the vacuum suction from sucking them in toward the router bit.

What are you using for your vacuum source?
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Offline kjlpdx

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2020, 16:30:35 pm »
I use a harbor freight dust collector which is outside.  I have 5” metal ductwork traveling 20’ and passing thru a window.  A disadvantage for winter is that it pumps warm air outside.

Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2020, 18:53:51 pm »
Wow, that's like a 2hp vacuum from hell!  Your needs far out way mine, that's fairly certain.
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Offline EddyCurrent

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2020, 19:41:11 pm »
This might be of use; http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/10514-custom-Turbo-Dust-Shoe-for-your-spindle-and-hose-size-combo?highlight=dust+shoe

There's a link to the files on Thingiverse halfway down the page.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 19:42:58 pm by EddyCurrent »
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Offline lloydsp

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2020, 19:48:38 pm »
"Wow, that's like a 2hp vacuum from hell!"
----------------
Heh!  I have TWO of them in my vacuum shed (one for each 4' x 8' bed router), plus a 10HP vacuum blower for work-holding! <grin>

Lloyd
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Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2020, 22:41:14 pm »
"Wow, that's like a 2hp vacuum from hell!"
----------------
Heh!  I have TWO of them in my vacuum shed (one for each 4' x 8' bed router), plus a 10HP vacuum blower for work-holding! <grin>

Lloyd

Now that's a lot of negative pressure, Lloyd! (now I know why my vacuum work holder didn't work too well. ;-) )
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Offline kjlpdx

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2020, 23:41:02 pm »
that Thingiverse boot has some good ideas, however the aerodynamics of it are horrible.  with enough vacuum you can overcome that i suppose.
i was running mine today without any brush, just the housing about 1 1/2" above the wood i was cutting, and with a 1/8" bit cutting 3/4" deep the chips were being pulled out.  i had to be careful when i moved things out of the way after completion it was sucking up anything else setting on the bed.  on to version 2.0 which i will design as a male plug to be encased with fiberglass rather than 3D printed.

Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2020, 00:55:30 am »
Congrats on a winning solution!
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Offline kjlpdx

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2020, 20:09:50 pm »
version 2, which I modelled with the idea of a fiberglass part, not a 3D printed part.  hot glued two halves together and wrapped with shipping tape as a mold release.  2 layers of 6oz glass, more on the collars.  was able to destroy plug foam with just a screwdriver and didn't have to use acetone to melt it.  split collar that grasps the spindle so clamp can effectively squeeze, altho the fit is pretty good all by itself.  haven't needed a brush because the vacuum is so strong.  im using a HF dust collector with 5" metal duct and 4" hose.  never tried this before, but applying a very light mist of 3M spray adhesive to the glass before wrapping it over the plug worked well and didn't noticeably affect the glass from absorbing resin.  saw that hint on RC airplane and model rocket groups.

Offline airnocker

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2020, 20:15:50 pm »
Now that looks pretty sweet!  Nice going.
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Offline lloydsp

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2020, 21:16:05 pm »
I'll have to consider such a strategy!  Both my 4x8 (foot) bed routers need more-effective dust boots, and I haven't yet come up with a design I consider adequate.

Yours looks "up to the task".  I'll explore it for my machines.

Lloyd
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Offline kjlpdx

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Re: one-off mold for dust boot
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2020, 01:14:21 am »
i have a model for the 80mm spindle with a 4" vacuum hose.  easy enough to stretch and squeeze if necessary.